"The charity that hastens to proclaim its good deeds, ceases to be charity, and is only pride and ostentation."
-William Hutton

Yeah but the obstinate charity is still helping people, so it's still a good thing. Whatever gets people to help others, why shun it?

(William Hutton was a rather depressing fellow) Actually, this is the sort of logic that ensures that I, (and almost everyone else) will always be a ''Sinner''.

If I had a load of money, (like Swifty/Superman) I could do two things, (well more then just two, but lets keep this simple): I could spend everything on myself, and then I'd commit the sin of greed. If on the other hand I tried to help people, (which would probably make me feel good) I would be guilty of the sin of pride. So nice to know I can at least choose the nature of my damnation....... Just out of curiosity, is there anything I, (or anyone else for that matter) could do that wouldn't be a good reason for damnation?

Seriously, just what is the logic here? If you like helping people, or worse if you actually enjoy doing so, it's no longer good? Is good is supposed to make you feel bad? If you enjoy life in any way you'll go to Hell? Man, the place must be getting crowded by now....... Just think of the lines in front of the toilets.

That's what the old school Catholic church would have you believe... unless you donated money to the church.

I see nothing wrong with doing something nice that benifits both the giver and receiver, espically if it makes one or both of them happy. It's a win-win.

It's not that he's helping people. It's the fact he's showing off while he's doing it.

It's more a "HEY LOOK WHAT I DID! PRAISE ME!" thing.

None of you get a bad taste in your mouth from people who do nice things just to get noticed or get praised for it or rub it in people's faces?

Yeah, they're doing nice things, but man are they eager to make sure that everyone knows about it.

(Old School Catholics are also quite depressing) I agree, in a ideal world, (i.e. like Heaven I suppose) everyone would be happy, (although that would be hard to truly appreciate without bad experiences as a comparison) and mutual benefit is among the basis for civilization, in fact it's among the basis for every sort of group activity, including those of animals.

I really can't see the problem of feeling good about doing good. I can see how someone who's overly pleased with him- or herself could commit ''sins'' because of that, but something similar could happen to someone with to little confidence. I don't thing feeling good about youself is wrong by itself, and certainly not if there is good reason to do so, as seems to be the case with ''Superman''.


I understand what you mean, I really do, but honestly no. I do get a bad taste from people who only pretend to be nice and good and all that. But if someone is actually doing many good things, then that wouldn't annoy me. It's a matter of style, some people are quiet, and others do everything in a flashy, flamboyant way. I think the results of peoples actions are more important then their style, don't you?

So the end justifies the means?

I do see where you are coming from as well. Swifty seems to be fully sincere in what he is doing in the comic, else he would have just let this last woman be. But the flashiness, showing off, and the constant reminding that he is "superman" kinda puts me off on him.

And as I've said before, Superman is a dick

Maybe...... But that's a entirely new subject. We don't know yet how Swifty/Superman got his money, hench we can't judge his means yet. If for example he's using money made by crime, (I don't think that's the case it's just a example), well, than indeed his means would be wrong, and counter the goodness from his charity, but we only know the style he has while doing what he does, and that he very pleased with himself.


Yes, if I ever met someone like that in RL, I probably would find it hard to like him as well, but in part that would be because I'm somewhat suspicious by nature, so I would suspect a less than wholesome motive. In fact we still don't know Swifty/Superman's motive...... But he seems to be sincere. Hmm, motive...... I'll make another wild guess.

What if....... Swifty/Superman did like Arloest, and made a deal with a sin? It could explain why he's using the name Superman, (Some of the damned don't remember their pasts or even names), and how he got his money. And his desire to help everyone could be explained like that as well, perhaps part of the deal? Maybe a bet?

Pride (or Vanity, if you want to call it that) is a very subtle sin (perhaps why Dave's Vanity always seems so hidden). If one never proclaims what one can do -- like Swifty's "I am Superman" -- then the gift of what one can do is hidden and wasted to the degree it does no good. But if one always proclaims what one can do, the focus shifts to the proclamation instead of the act and thus becomes the sin of pride. Thus there is nothing wrong with doing good because it makes one feel good, just as long as the focus remains on the action of the good instead of the proclamation of the good, and thus remains a virtue instead of a sin.

The irony that came to my mind when I logged in, however, was that I had asserted in the "Sever the Hunger" thread that hell is a place where people cannot genuinely help each other because they cannot genuinely trust each other, whereas in this thread I said I envisioned heaven as a place where people can help each other because they can genuinely trust each other. Whether through accident or design, running the arcs concurrently thus emphasizes that ... even if Swifty is still just on Earth instead of in heaven, in order to better contrast with how Lita is in hell.

I'm loving this little story with 'Superman'. He's cool.

Though, considering my most recent addiction.. ((Wicked, the stage show about the Wicked Witch of the West from Oz)) ... there's one song in there that I love..

"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished"

..... That being said.. What'll happen to Superman? XD

Response to comment made about the 'Sever the Hunger' made in the Sever the hunger thread:
http://www.pholph.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 061#541061

Previously, on Jack...



(And please note, those complaining about the mess Nobody makes, the lack of an "h", there. )

I was curious if any decision has been made about the rest of "the Superman Project." I would guess that with the unexpected problems created by the US postal system either losing or taking a long time to get the pages between Dave and Hannah, then the server failure, then finally the fact that "Sever the Hunger" is Arc XXXV while "the Superman Project" is Arc XXXVI that the current plan is just to finish up "Sever the Hunger" and then to complete "the Superman Project" as opposed to running them at the same time again. After all, there is not much else one can do than pacing the work out even further after one has been presented with even more of it.

This might look familiar, I suppose. I guess we'll see the rest of it now. Very nice.

Oh yeah, I remember this one! Yeah, that's just about my nightmare... breaking down and getting yelled at by a-holes.

Haha. I remember this arc! Im so excited to finally see the end of it, it's been awhile. I do have to say, while I dont mind the 'yelling' part of that day, the car not working would have me so frustrated. its my fear of having to be somewhere important and my car breaking down. but then again, I have AAA soooo its ok for me xD

w00t! Supah Swiftah to tha rescue!

Yay, at last we can have the conclusion to this arc since it stopped on a bit of a cliffhanger

Man, I thought it was a side arc that was put on hold...

Awesome! I always wondered if we'd get to see the end.

Tsk, tsk. My nightmares are way better then yours.

And the moral of this story is ... next time your car flakes out on a bridge at rush hour, make sure it's a bridge with a gentle downward slope.

Also, if you're that close to the end of the bridge, get out and ****ing push you stupid twit! And yes, it is possible to push and stear at the same time. I know we're supposed to feel sympathy for her (she's female, cute, and poor) and hold the convertable driver in contempt (he's male, ugly, and rich) but last year I was involved in an accident where someone was killed because of some stupid fuckarse who shouldn't have been driving in the first place.

As a rule, if you're going to panic at any time when you're sitting in the driver's seat, then you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

PS: Two part video on emotional manipulation in film production:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RedLetterMe ... Jarz7BYnHA

Not going to lie, I was confused and even a little scared when I saw this arc come up. I thought that the server crash may have screwed something up and we'd have another century long hiatus. Good to see that I'm not actually stuck in a time loop!

So, is there a way the "Powers that be" can combine these two discussion threads on the same story arc?

Done.

Whoooooo! It's back! The Superman Project is back!
*happy dance*

Heeeeeeeeeere's Swifty!

Two threads merged into one? What sorcery is this?!

It's extremely unnecessary to shout that at someone who have a car problem.

Speaking from experience, people do it anyways. (Try having your transmission die in the middle lane of a parkway during rush hour.)

There was a statement my (brief) driving instructor once told me. People can be the most sociable, nicest, "give you their last dollar to help you" kind of people. Stick them behind the wheel of a vehicle and they become monsters. There's actually some pretty interesting psychology behind it too, but that doesn't excuse anyone of being a jerk.

True. Doesn't matter why they do it,but lets say "I had a stressful day at work,so get the fuck out of my way" what happened on your job is no excuse to be rude.

They always turns into monsters in traffic after work.

When people are pissed, there's no such thing as "shit happens." Every thing that goes wrong is someone's fault. A car breaking down suddenly is due to the driver being an irresponsible asshole who didn't take care of it better. If you're running late for work, every single driving incident you encounter that even momentarily delays you is responsible for you being late, not you for failing to get out the door earlier and planning ahead.

You're looking for logic where there is none, Katya. People who scream at other drivers aren't *thinking*, they're just *reacting*.

Figured as much,but people are afraid to blame themselves for being late in the morning and not taking good enough care of their car.

My journey to work is a 50 minute drive according to SatNav.
It varies from 1 to 2 hours.
Because of the other assholes on the road.

And yes, yes I am reacting
grrrr

Behold the power of phpBB!

(Which is really a cool program, having just put one in for another website!)

Arcaton, you are always justified in throwing a temper tantrum.

From reading this thread I understand that this arc has allready been going on for a while, but I wasn't around then. Where can I read the rest of it?



Do everything in moderation and hope it evens out in the end? Or just assume that you're going to hell anyway and indulge in whatever sinful behaviour you happen to fancy.

E_F, this showing has started from the very beginning of the arc. Basically, Dave jumped back to Step 1 for this showing of TSP, so you're not missing anything that a few clicks of the "previous page" link couldn't fix.

I could have sworn this arc had happened already, but either way, it's a decent story non-the less.

We never finished this arc, Vin. Dave was running it as a bonus comic, but stopped when he was having server trouble.

Ah, thank you very much DD.

Ah, gotcha. I just became a bit confused because the arc is listed to have 18 strips but there's only 5 in it right now.

Thanks.

Five so far in this restart. The arc was originally being used as a filler when there was a delay in getting Sever the Hunger through the mail from Hannah to Dave. I'm not sure if that original lost package of inked pages ever did turn up. But then, the server problem hit, and that kept things off-line for a while until it was rebuilt and repopulated. We never really got to see what "The Superman Project" was about...everything came to a screeching halt just when things started to get interesting.

Hehe, I was trying to make a point back then, but in all seriousness that's actually not that far from what I'm trying to do and I rather expect my actions will sort of even out in the end, so I figure that by Jackverse standards I'm quite likely to end up in purgatory. Of course, there's actions and someone's actual nature to consider... Personally, I like to think of myself as neutral, but I may be either to harsh or to lenient on myself and I can't even begin to guess what the Creator would make of me.

(Probably a cat skin rug.)

Someone needs to make a "I believe in Swifty!" poster.

Better yet, make T-shirts! And make sure to wear them at AC

I am so doing this... I was looking for something to do with the six dozen t-shirt transfers I found in my desk today, anyway.

Sweetness!
You do that and I will buy one from you.

This is very true. But on the other hand, it's extremely unintelligent to still be trying the ignition after twenty minutes. If it didn't start the first 298 times, it's probably not going to work now. In fact it's certainly not going to work now, because the battery is probably all but dead.

And as an aside, in many countries obstructing traffic, even for a break down, is also highly illegial, which means it can also be extremely expensive! So seriously, don't do this in real life. Unless you're driving some American two ton pile of pig-iron (which *needs* power stearing) get it onto the hard shoulder, as quickly as possible, as soon as it is safe to do so.

Unless you're driving a rollerskate with a motor on it, steering without power steering is kind of a pain in the ass, and that's with a functional motor... as I found out when the PS pump on my 95 Eagle Talon (~3K lbs) crapped out, a few years back.

I could turn it (and kind of had to, to get anywhere, like say to the fix-it place), but it was an absolute bitch and a half to do so. I can easily see where a non-athletic woman (who aren't, in general, widely known for great upper body strength) would have problems with it, even before considering the lack of a working motor and no one to help push the car.

But then again I'm not looking for opportunities to take potshots at the US, either.

That's also true, but stress doesn't typically help much when rational thinking is required. As for shouting, well that might actually release some stress for the person doing the shouting, but as seen in the comic it's usually quite counter productive in most other respects.

(Personally, I very much prefer to deal with problems directly; in this case pushing the broken car out of the way.)

You know, Ive read these strops twice now (when they first were out, and again now) And I'm sorry, but a guy being THAT nice to me, would probably freak me out >>. I would have probably rather ridden with the tow truck guy than with Spitty (sowwy). I think I'm just too cynical and have too little faith left in mankind to just think a guy would do so much, and spend so much for me, for nothing in return.

It's a sad statement about society today when charity and kindness is instantly met with fear and suspicion. I remember holding a yard sale a few years back, and watching this little boy constantly migrating back to the toy pile, and staring at this one particular toy (I don't remember what it was). His mother had told him they couldn't afford it, that they were there only for school clothes (and man, did that take me back to my own impoverished childhood), so I walked over and just gave the kid the toy. His mother grabbed him, knocking the toy out of his hand, and drug him off, threatening to call the police if I followed them. I mean, yeah, I was a bit scruffy at the time, but just because I was nice to her kid, apparently that made me a child molester.

I know this is an extreme case, but I've seen less dramatic instances a million times; I've also seen it work the other way, as well. You know, the "Oh, I'd give that hitchhiker that's standing in the snow a ride, but he might be a robber." Or, "I'd help those people with the broken-down vehicle, but it might be a trap." Or, and I admit to this one, "I'd help that woman who looks lost/stranded, but I might get maced and/or robbed."

And then I read this thread, and all I see, over and over, is "Oh, this guy's being really nice for no reason... what's he up to?" Well, from the point of view of one of those weirdos who likes to do nice things for people, for no other reasons then 1)it feels good to do nice things, and 2) I'm a big believer in the "Pay it forward" rule, all I have to say is that the suspicious and the fearful may live safe, but they may not ever really live.

Oh, and I believe in Swifty.

Awww that is so nice Moonchilde... Truthly nice people still give warm fluffies even when they get a cold prickies in return. And they just throw cold prickies away, then give them back or someone else.

Oh Yea, this is my favorite page in this whole store so far...The looks on the woman's face and Swifty's. is so priceless. His reasons ...Superman the hero for hire, story.

Superman wouldn't be a hero if he didn't do it all pro bono. Sure, If he ask for a fire chief 's salary, and who would really be against that. Yet, the guy can make diamonds in his bare paws, so why would he have need of money.


PBH

I don't know if it's life imitating art or the other way around, but these past two weekends we got some impressive snow storms and true to character I was out there in the thick of it pulling stuck cars out of snow banks, pushing them up icy hills, and helping out however I could if the need arose. I never asked for anything in return, but a couple folks insisted on paying me a few bucks, which work out well because it covered gas. Superman has his red superhero cape and boots, I Just have a red Jeep, but both give the owner that confidence that he or she can do anything.

I also had a stupid amount of fun out there! 4WD drifts FTW!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSae4vRT0Kk

I'm going to go with "The world is an utterly terrifying place, and the good parts are constatnly downplayed by a media who wants us to think that everyone we meet is a cannibalistic child molester who wants to eat out children and wear their skin, as well as fear being one of our primary emotions"

Seriously, I know it sucks, but thats just how things are. You shouldnt stop doing nice things just for the hell of it, but you can just as well expect this reaction. I try to do nice stuff on occasion, but its usually very minor stuff, like helping people with the luggage, or directions

(drooptail) Any chance you could send our snow back to us here in near snowless Maine?

Our winter tourism is suffering due to the dismal snow cover. And come spring, our wells and the Maple Sap Season may also suffer unless we get more snow and soon.

Aldin, take some of ours, We're almost up a foot here 8\.

As for the world. I have to say yes it is. I really am curious of when people do nice things. Not necessarily 'suspicious' but curious. It could be because I've taken way to many sociology and psychology classes, but I stand by it. People that do things nice in todays worlds, tend to only get flack for it, which brings up the question of why theyre doing it. Thats not to say that even I havent done things just for the heck of it (I've helped chip ice out of peoples wheel wells, and if Im bored Ill dust off windows of co-workers cars), but its still a thing where people will get defensive, or out-right rude if you offer any kind of help for nothing in return. I think it really shows not only humanized fear in full, but also it shows what each person is made of. The fears, the worry, the curiousity, or is it, helpfullness, niceness, sweetness.

I still stand that yes, I would be a little freaked out for someone dishing out that kind of cash for me, a stranger that he doesnt know. Its simply because why I want to believe a person would do something so nice for nothing, it just doesn't happen anymore. People as a whole are not nice anymore. Chivalry is, as they say, dead for the most part. Its a depressing fact but as population grows, more bad things will happen, and as they happen the more people learn of it. People don't tend to gossip or share the good, quite as much as they share the juicy bad bits.

I never post here, but...


























I believe in Swifty.

Actually, Superman doesn't need to get paid, he gets a percentage of all his merchandising, which he either donates or uses to fund various charities and foundations, he has also done endorsements which go to the same causes and foundations. (I'm not making that up.. read your comic books kiddies..)

If I could I would. I have had my fill of snow this winter and am ready for spring to roll in. Heck, at this point I'll settle for dry clean roads devoid of massive potholes.

It does make one wonder why superheroes don't use their powers to solve more mundane problems. The X-Men have a member who can control weather, yet I don't recall any blighted spots on Earth that could *really* use a rainstorm ever being visited by her...

Because Reed Richard's is Useless.

I had a bemusing thought about time in regard to this arc: first that the time part of it actually ran last year, secondly that I am waiting for enough time to pass for it to catch up to where it left off, and third that we are now re-reading about how first woman we met in the arc is having car trouble at the same time that Toyota is having trouble with its Prius and other models. Thus the delay in the arc might be timely just as long as Swifty does not end up getting the first woman motorist a Prius or something to replace her worn-out car ... and now I think I am out of time to be online now myself.

More seriously, though, being Superman does not mean being always able to quickly and easily do what others cannot. Sometimes it means being able through concentration of effort and overcoming of what is still difficult in order to achieve something that is actually super. Hence in each and every person it is possible to be Superman.

Storm did go back to Kenya a few times to help out there. But that whole "saving the world" thing gets in the way quite a bit.

Thing about Storm or any Superhero, expect maybe Superman, is most heroes have a limited area of effect and/or limited power supplies. So, Storm can call up a rainstorm, but for only so long (maybe 10-30 mins) into the area of a small village (10 square miles) if she is lucky. And she is very likely pulling the storm or rain from some place else, which may need the rain as much as where she is. In most cases, she needs her wind and storm powers only inside a few blocks around her.

PBH

On to the comic... I do love Dave's rant about art/being an artist in this bit. Though I do wonder if (art project mentioned in the comic) is supposed to refer to something specific he's done, or just a general name he made up for "stuff I don't like anymore." Or just BS made up for the comic story.

Regardless, I enjoyed this whole side-trek through the comic-Dave's world!

(EDIT) ... um. OKay. That answers that question. Putting in the actual name mentioned in the comic gives me... weird results when posted. I somehow missed any mention of this project.

Remember this...Dave

"You don't have to be crazy to do this...
....BUt it sure helps..." - Bugs Bunny


PBH

Weird.

I never needed a reason. It's just what I am. Don't see how it could be different.

It's just the old stereotype about how you have to suffer for your art. That somehow being miserable makes your work that much more purer.

That's not necessarily true... Thomas Kinkade is a millionaire and I suspect he's pretty happy. R.Crumb and H.R. Geiger are probably a little TOO happy...

Flowers vs Blow-jobs.... Only Dave would think of that example. He is right, but I would think she would want the little more than just flowers. Diner, little wine, and tickle of her own,

But it takes more effort to be mean than give alittle to someone else. The Highway example. Speeding up can help an incoming car, if there is no one behind me. But I do slow down, when I'm getting off the highway, and go behind the incoming car. The really mean ones will speed past you, cut you off, and the slow down in front of you as they go up the off ramp.

PBH

For the record, I speed up.

Well, personally, I'm more creative when I'm miserable. Maybe its simply escapism at work.

I'm the guy who is too out of it to notice the signal, and will instead slowly drift into the lane with the other car with potentially disastrous results. Either that, or I'll slow down too quickly and get promptly rear-ended.

SUPERMAN'S GONE BAD!?! WE'RE DOOMED!!!

(Unless I get this mind disruptor to work... )

Where's the goddamn Batman when you need him...?

GIGER.

HANS.
RUDI.
GIGER.

You don't WRITE it "Geiger". You don't pronounce it "Geiger".

I lurn'd something today.

And since you're in the midst of correcting a spelling, spelling "Hans Ruedi" correctly would be beneficial to you, I think.

Oh snap! Salkafar, take a serious chill pill. And Deatzh burned you on that one. If you're going to correct someone else's spelling, you better be damn sure you don't have any grammatical errors either.

Most of the good pills are either illegal or require a prescription. I recommend meditation to reach the tranquil state so common to cats.

Everyone together now: ''Aum.''

I friggin LOVE YOU DAVE!!!

It's an old usenet tradition that any post containing a spelling correction should contain at least one error of its own.

Of course, nowadays the common reaction would be "wuts uznet?".

(arthritictailflicking) Damn these young'uns. Back in my days, you needed two cans with string tied between'em to hook-up to Usenet. And back then, "Spam" was some sort of meat product you bought in a can. } ; 3

Aum, Aum on the range....

http://www.unicornography.com/2005/20050323.html

Its like the drunk superman joke XD

Swifty reminds me of an eccentric friend of mine.

Is it wrong that upon reading today's update, I thought "I really need to get some of those cards."

I mean, hell, they'd make a great pick-up line.

Just be careful about that. You might set expectations a bit high. :p

Yeah, but that's the whole purpose of a good pick up line... the bitter disapointment the next morning is just part of the game.

Two observations:

First: I'm waiting for this arc to turn sinister, and am really glad that it hasn't so far.

Two, for those above commenting "Old School" catholics. I'd like to point out that the church, despite some issues it may have, is still the largest charity organization in the world. Anyone who has traveled anywhere in the third world knows that there are mindboggling number of people who would not have an education, healthcare, safe water, and/or food without the Church. I personally know 1/2 a dozen men and women who have gone their entire adult lives living in chastity and poverty traveling from one bad situation to another doing what ever good they could. They have hundreds of thousands of colleagues.

So if the Catholic church's outlook seems "depressing" it hasn't stopped them from dealing with situations less depressing people can't or won't touch.

The world rallied around Hati when it was in the news and flashy. But five years from now who do you think will still be there helping those permenantly crippled? A bunch of dower Catholics.

@River: or Mormons......

I hear Scientology is talking about sticking around in Haiti.

Oh, wait... you said helping, not "helping themselves".

(And on an unrelated note, I spend way too much time on TV Tropes. Not only did I try to use the double single-quote thing for italics, but just now I had to remember to put a space between "TV" and "Tropes"...)

The Christian Church, Catholic or not, is (supposed to be) like that. Giving the spare tunic to the one who has none in a proverbial sense, and all that. And believe me, I also personally know quite a few people as well who have given up comfort and security to help giving it to those who don't have it in other nations. Unfortunately, as seen in Washington DC last November, sometimes personal agendas and views override that kind of charity... hooray for blackmail!

...but I digress.

Yay, we're getting close to where we left off before The Great Crash! I'm giddy!

If the father's ship is twenty hours away, then even at a sprightly 30 knots, it's no more than 1,111km away from port - and probably closer to the nearest patch of land. In other words, it's almost certainly well within helicopter range. (The comic looks like modern America...) This goes double if it's a Navy ship.

So yes, there might be something Superman can do - if has the right favours to call in. And if he's bright enough to think about it.

If Superman is friends with the President, they can just send Army One to go pick the girl's father up.

"Marine One"

Maybe, but unless she's a Wonder Woman she's got no right to complain and if she is she shouldn't hang out with geeks that carry around such geeky cards. Either way the joke's on her.


I would like to point out multiple problems in the third world could eventually be solved permanently by not actively discouraging the use of condoms...

As I said.... Some Problems. The churches position is based on principal not on practicality. At some point thats going to change. But Change comes very very slowly to a thousand some odd year old organization with a billion some odd people. At some point practicality has got to win out, but the church would rather have the world bend to principal than the church bend to the realities of the world. A well meaning if somewhat misguided philosophy. If John Paul II had stayed healthy longer we might have seen more change.

On the ground? My Mother's best friend is a nun who got sent to places Marines would have been afraid to go She had no condoms to distribute, but she never suggetsed anyone not use them. A friend of mine (also a nun) works inner city schools in the U.S. and I know for a fact her advice to kids has had little to do with the church's official position.

On the positive end, Roman Catholic (along with Jewish charities) charities generally do little or no prosolitizing. Very little energy is spent attempting to convert people, which is less true for other religious charaties.

Oh right, the Marines have the gig exclusively now.